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[网帖翻译] 印网友热议: 印度经济要经过多少年才干变得和中国一样强大

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发表于 2018-9-25 05:04:14 |显示全部楼层
(译者:tangerl)
How many years of growth will it take for out economy to become as significant as China

印度版块讨论帖:我们的经济要经过多少年的增长才干变得和中国一样强大?
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reddit网友热议
FrankBeamer_
Don't even know why we compare ourselves to china anymore tbh. They are so far ahead of us at this point. Only thing common left is the population.
我甚至不知道为什么我们还要拿自己和中国比较,他们远远率先于我们,独一能一比的就是人口。
Lord_TrainBacker7000
The thing is that India often used to compare itself with Pakistan as its rival, but thanks to our economic growth, any Ino-Pak comparison is as obsolete as a Sino-Indian comparison.
This is just a gross oversimplification of the issue btw.
问题是,印度过去常常把巴基斯坦作为对手,并与之进行比较,但由于我们的经济增长,任何印、巴的比较都和中、印比较一样过时。
话说回来,这只是对问题的过分简单化。
Abhidivine
Well, India can only compare itself with third world countries and war-ravaged countries, as soon as we start comparing it even a semi-decent country we start to lose.
好吧,印度只能与第三世界国家,还有饱受战争蹂躏的国家相比较,一旦我们开始将它与一个半风光的国家进行比较,我们就会输。
ecelmao
On that note: The state of California has a higher GDP than India. Not per capita, but in absolute numbers!
这一点上,我说一句:加州的GDP都比印度高,不是人均,是绝对数字!
YinTRY
Also, the province of Guangdong in China surpass Russia with nominal gdp.
同样,中国的广东省名义GDP超过了俄罗斯。
igeni95
These are outdated figures from 2013. I know five years doesn't sound like much but both China and India are growing so rapidly that even that time frame makes a huge difference. The latest figures are 2.848 trillion USD and 14.092 trillion USD for India and China respectively.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) (IMF data)
这些都是2013年的过时数据,我知道5年听起来不算多,但中国和印度的增长都是如此之快,以至于即使是在这一时间框架内,情况也会有很大的不同。
印度和中国的最新数据分别为2.848万亿美元和14.092万亿美元。
资料来源:
按国内生产总值 (名义) 分列的国家名单( IMF data )
MythDestructor
Depressing.
太令人沮丧了。
ltaaaTxt
marakiri
Yes. 100% agree. To add to that most of them are sifarshi employees, who get there through nepotism and corruption to begin with and there is no way to throw them out.
是,100%允许,更重要的是,他们中的大多数人都是堕落的雇员,他们一开始就是通过裙带关系和腐败来到这里的,还没有办法把他们赶出去。
jainsbino
fucking sweeeet, i need a job like this
太他娘好了,我需要一份这样的工作。
ecelmao
We need to get rid of all PSUs.
IRCTC, BSNL, SBI, Air India for starters.
Coal India and SAIL need to go away too.
我们得摆脱所有的公共事业部门( PSUs:Public sector Undertakings )
从IRCTC, BSNL, SBI, Air India开始,
Coal India,SAIL也应该滚蛋。
igeni95
While we're at it can we also reduce government role in education as much as possible? One of the biggest things holding us back is that almost our entire education, except for a few elite schools and universities) is a complete shitshow. Time to stop the idiocy of restricting full fledged privatisation of the Education sector.
在我们这样做的同时,我们还能尽可能地减少政府在教育中的作用吗?最大的妨碍之一是,除了少数精英学校和大学外,我们的整个教育简直都是一场彻头彻尾的闹剧,现在是停止限制教育部门全面私有化的愚昧做法的时候了。
ecelmao
If you are talking about deregulation, I agree with you. But only if government steps up its direct provision!
如果你是在谈论放松管制,我允许你的看法,但前提是政府要加大直接拨备的力度!
iim_throw_123
Time to stop the idiocy of restricting full fledged privatisation of the Education sector.
LPU and Chaudhary are doing a good job , you can afford it , does that mean everyone can ?
是时候停止限制教育部门全面私有化的愚昧做法了。
——LPU和Chaudhary做得很好,你能负担得起,这能否象征着每个人都可以?
jainsbino
Lol an “app” is gonna fix the gobermen issues
LOL,一款APP处理政府(腐败)问题。
iim_throw_123
I had the opportunity to advise the Kenyan government and there I noticed that most government departments have full time employees only at the bureaucrat level and all other employees below that are contractual.
Ignorance is high with this one , do you have any idea how hard cops-docs work in India , the problem in India is measuring performance objectively , India's biggest curse is analytical bureaucracy and and social fault-lines aka corrupt society
Also India's GDP expenditure when it comes to salary to govt. officials is quite low
我曾有机会向肯尼亚政府提供建议,在那里我注意到,大多数政府部门惟独官僚机构的全职雇员,而下面的所有其他雇员都是合同雇员。
你对这个问题的无知程度很高,你知道印度的警察、医生工作有多辛苦吗,印度的问题在于客观地衡量表现,印度最大的祸根是官僚主义和社会缺陷,也就是腐败的社会。
此外,印度的在薪资方面的GDP支出也是如此,官员们的薪资相当的低。
marakiri
Don’t mean it like that and I’m not talking about docs and cops. I’m talking about ur avg engineer and departmental employee in infra and energy related depts. there is a real difference in competence.
我不是那个意思,我也不是在说医生和警察,我指的是我们的工程师和部门的,有一个真正的差别,那就是能力。
SlytherinSlayer
We kinda missed the manufacturing economy train. I really hope we could grow at a rate of 10%+.
我们差不多错过了创造业经济这趟车, 我真心希翼我们能以10%+ 的速度增长。
Abhidivine
LOL 10%+? easier to hope for a dinosaur riding a unicorn.
LOL,10%+ ? 还不如期望恐龙骑独角兽来的更容易。
SlytherinSlayer
A man can dream!
人可以有梦想!
jainsbino
That’s the problem with Indians....dream and/or cum..
.
这就是印度人的问题。。。梦想、期望。。
I_Blizzard93
Anyone who even dreams of surpassing China with the inept human capital we have is deluded. Even left parties here are busy doing appeasement rather than focusing on health and education. Only one cm is doing what needs to be done, but even he is getting no support from the liberals. They think he is not worth their precious time. No wonder this country is going into the hands of the bhaktoons. Indians truly deserve living in a shithole.
任何梦想着以我们现有的无能人力资本去超越中国的人都会被蒙蔽。就连左翼政党也在忙于安抚,而不是专注于健康和教育,惟独少数人在做必需去做的事,但就连他们也得不到自在派的支持,他们认为这些不值得花费他们珍贵的时间,难怪这个国家会落入bhaktoons(注:印度语,这个词不懂,也查不到。。)之手。
印度人活该呆在这个鬼地方。
werrt1234
Just wait for them to collapse lol.
就等着他们崩溃吧。LOL

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发表于 2018-9-25 05:04:22 |显示全部楼层
Abhidivine
This type of visualization is flawed. It doesn't consider the variations in the other countries growth rate.I mean China's economy is still very strong and may even surpass Indian growth in which case this would be impossible.
Right now China has a growth rate of 6.7% vs Indias 7.1%. China has amazing world class projects lined up for supporting its growth in future like its belt road project to Europe, the largest bullet train system in the world,Its huge investment in solar and robotics etc. Whereas we know the conditions in India, we may get one line of Mumbai Ahmedabad bullet train build entirely by foreign Japan maybe on loan in the next 20 years.Any other major infrastructure projects to boost/support the growth of the economy?Ohh yeah the another maybe of chabahar port.
Unless you expect growth to happen magically nothing gonna happen, unless we do something to make it happen.The country cant provide basic necessities like water and electricity 24/7 to its population, how the fuck will it ever be able to sustain a high or even decent growth rate?
这种抽象化的说法是有缺陷的,我的意思是,中国的经济仍然非常强劲,甚至可能超过印度的增长,在这种情况下,这是不可能的。
目前,中国的经济增长率为6.7%,而印度为7.1%,中国有着令人惊叹的世界级项目来支持未来的进展,比如它的项目,世界上最大的子弹头列车系统,在和技术上的巨大投资等等。
尽管我们知道印度的情况,但我们可能会有一条孟买-艾哈迈达巴德高速铁路的线路,但完全由外国,由日本在未来20年内贷款建筑,除此之外还有其它促进/支持经济增长的大型基础设备项目吗?哦,是,可能恰巴哈尔港的算吧。
除非你期待增长奇迹般地浮现,否则什么都不会发生,除非我们做些什么来实现它。
这个国家不能24/7地向其人口提供水和电等基本必须品,又他妈怎么能维持一个高的甚至是不错的增长率?
willyslittlewonka
China is leaps and bounds ahead of us. It's actually not even funny at this point. Even if it is a developing country, the Tier I cities like Shanghai, Guangzhou etc are more or less developed microstates within.
With every decade, they are rapidly improving infrastructure and tech/fintech sectors and developing connections with Sub Saharan Africa, Pakistan, LatAm, Europe, massive trade with US. The West sees China as a rival power. Meanwhile, we're hoping our services industry will pull us through like manufacturing did for China (not likely) and have (relatively) little impact globally.
How often do westerners bother mentioning India compared to China? We're not a threat to anyone, all we have is 'kitna gdp bc', 'waah growth rate dekh na'. If we become a global power, it'll likely not be this century.
中国突飞猛进,遥遥率先于我们,其实这一点都不好笑,即便它仍是一个进展中国家,但像上海、广州等一线城市也或多或少都能算内部发达的小国家。
每十年,他们都在迅速改善基础设备和技术/金融、科技部门,并进展与撒哈拉以南非洲、巴基斯坦、拉丁美洲、欧洲的联系,以及与美国的大量贸易,西方视中国为竞争对手。
而与此同时,我们希翼我们的服务业能像业那样协助我们度过难关( 不太可能 ),而且在全球范围内(相对)影响较小。
与中国相比,西方人多久才会提及印度?我们对任何人都没有要挟,我们所拥有的惟独‘Kitna GDP BC’,‘Wah Growth Rate Dekh na’(译注:抱歉各位,也是印度语+英语,译者看不懂ヘ(_ _ヘ)),如果我们成为一个全球强国,很可能不会是在本世纪。
namesnotrequired
Europe has been the luckiest in this regard, because they could export their ever expanding population all around the world.
在这方面,欧洲是最幸运的,因为他们可以把一直扩大的人口输送到世界各地。
pakaomat
When it comes to economics, all governments since 1990s(PVNR era) had been right wing govts.
在经济方面,自20世纪90年代( PVNR时代 ) 以来,所有政府都是右翼政府。
LemonMellon
What exactly is right wing economics?
那么右翼经济到底是什么?
Abhidivine
Another problem we’re facing is brain drain, students who take the benefit of our national universities end up leaving the country.
Thats an outdated concept, I feel.The Indian unversites fuck up the career of millions of students with its subpar and extremely outdated education systems.I mean if given choice no one would ever wanna study in a Indian university.Lots of people are forced to go aboard not only to get a better life but a decent presentable education too.For brain drain to happen, the Indian universities must first be able to even provide some worthwhile knowledge.
Our national institutions could use some real reform. And improvements can only happen when people who know better stay to reform the institutions.
People in India donot support or actually want good people.Look at that one IItian in politics.He did good honest work but people bash him.Why would anyone educated even think of helping India again after seeing the example of how we treat honest men? I mean look at the no of people with criminal cases sitting inside the parliament.I dont even know do we call ourself a civilized society even after that.
“ 我们面临的另一个问题是人才外流,那些从国立大学受益的学生最终离开印度去了美国。 ”
——我觉得这是一个过时的概念。
印度的大学以其低劣和极其过时的教育体系,毁掉了数百万学生的前途。
我的意思是,如果有选择的话,没有人会想在印度的大学学习,很多人被迫出国,不只是为了过上更好的生活,也是为了获得风光的教育,要想幸免人才流失,印度大学必需首先能够提供有价值的知识。
“我们的国家机构需要一些真正的改革,唯有更多有知识的人留下来改革制度,情况才会有所改善。”
——印度人不支持,也不想要好人,看看那个印度理工学院出身的政客,他做得很好,诚实,但人家骂他,受过教育的人看到我们如此对待一个模范式的诚实人,又怎么还会想到再协助印度?
看看那些犯了刑事案还高坐在国会的人,我都不知道我们能否能称我们自己是一个文明的社会。
Abhi_sama
Why are we still comparing ourselves to UK though, our population is like 20 times bigger than UK's population. The average income is still very low even if we do overtake UK.
为什么我们还拿自己和英国比较,我们的人口是英国人口的20倍,即便我们真的超过了英国,平均收入仍然很低。
shanewang09
I love India and I really hope that the living standards in India can improve drastically. I also hope that India and China could set apart their differences and help each other instead of competing.
我爱印度,我真的希翼印度的生活水平能大幅度提高,我也希翼印度和中国能够消除分歧,互相协助,而不是相互竞争。
SlytherinSlayer
Exactly! I really wish China-India set aside their differences and try to improve the relations. We are both Asian countries which were subjugated and taken advantage of. We both had crippling poverty and were ridiculed in the west. We are supposed to be friendly rivals not enemies. The only people who will benefit from our enmity are our common enemies.
一点儿没错。我真希翼两国能抛开分歧,努力改善两国关系,我们都是被制服和利用的亚洲国家,我们都很穷,在西方也遭到讥笑,我们应该是友好的对手,而不是敌人,独一能从我们的敌意中获益是我们共同的敌人。
kshatriiya
My thoughts too, as an Asian it breaks my heart to see two cradles of Asian civilizations against each other. China and India should work together to enrich the whole of Asia rather than let the west exploit the division.
我的想法也一样,作为一个亚洲人,看到两个亚洲文明的摇篮互相对抗,我的心都碎了,中国和印度应该共同努力,丰富整个亚洲,而不是让西方利用这一分歧。
pinkfraud
India is going to be one of the most water-stressed regions in the world. With a population as big as China's, we simply do not have enough water for everybody, leave alone equal China's GDP.
Prepare yourselves.
印度将成为世界上缺水最严峻的地区之一,人口和中国不相上下,我们根本就没有足够的水给每个人,更不用说相当于中国的GDP了。
好好准备吧。
SlytherinSlayer
We should accelerate seawater desalination research.
我们应该加快海水淡化研究。
[deleted]
Actually all developed nations faced pollution in starting then when they got wealthy they started dealing with it .Look I am all for sustainable development but it's very difficult ,it's model is not even clear and neither implemented by any country on Grand scale .China is now doing well decreasing pollution .Many Chinese cities have less pollution now ,even beijing fares better than Delhi now .What India currently needs is massive MASSIVE efforts towards infrastructure development which is needed for businesses to thrive and make it easier to do business here
现实上,所有发达国家在起步时都面临污染问题,当他们变得富有时,他们开始解决污染问题。
听着,我完全支持可持续进展,但这很艰难,它的模式甚至不清楚,也没有任何国家大规模实施。
中国现在做得很好,减少污染,中国现在有许多城市污染很少,甚至北京现在的情况也比德里好。
印度目前所需要的是大规模的基础设备建设,这是企业蓬勃进展和更容易在这里开展业务所必须的。
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发表于 2018-9-25 05:04:53 |显示全部楼层
bootpalish
We know.
That's what the PR teams of various cities in China say. But they are also taking steps to reduce pollution, making the city green, reducing carbon footprint, focus on electric vehicles, air purifiers etc apart from sending emails for revised Press Releases to the agency which India does.
我们都知道。
中国各个城市的公关团队都是这么说的,但他们也在采取措施减少污染、绿化城市、减少碳使用、关注、空气净化器等,此外还向印度的环保局发送电子邮件,要求修改新闻稿。
deendayalchicken
The population is almost equal but the GDP is almost 5x
(中印)人口差不多相等,但中国的GDP简直是印度的5倍。
AnyJackfruit
I shudder to think of the environmental cost we shall have to pay to achieve this pyrrhic ideal.
As to answer the real question that lies behind such queries, India doesn't work because it is full of Indians. As long as Indians continue to be themselves, I can't imagine India being a liveable place. There is no point blaming the Government, because the Government is full of Indians.
I don't think Indians have come to terms with the modern world or the compromises required for surviving and thriving in such a world. Till that happens, we shall continue dying.
想到我们要为实现这一这个得不偿失的抱负而付出的环境代价,我就不寒而栗。
至于这些问题背后的真正问题,印度之所以不行,是因为印度四处都是印度人,只需印度人继续保持自我,我就无奈想象印度是一个宜居的地方,怪罪政府是没故意义的,因为政府里全是印度人。
我不认为印度人已经接受了现代世界或在这样一个世界中生存和繁荣所需的妥协,在那之前,我们将继续死去。
The_0bserver
China's Silk Road will definitely keep India in check. Really don't think we have much of a chance.
中国的丝绸之路一定会牵制印度,我真的不认为我们有多大的机会。
jainsbino
The purpose of BRI is far, far more than keeping anyone “in check”
BRI 的目的远远不是“扼住”谁的脖子那么简单。
[deleted]
Yeah that's true, but once the Indian economy gets big, and assuming the growth rate doesn't slow down (as China's hasn't), then the same could happen in India too.
是的,这是现实,但一旦印度经济进展壮大,假设增长率没有放缓( 就像中国一样),那么同样的情况也可能发生在印度。
diper07
China ko chutiya samjha ha kya? They will find new ways and will always be 10 step ahead of india.
中国#¥#%&*?他们会找到新的方法,并且总是比印度率先10步。
ranon20
What are the growth rate assumptions for China? For England?
Or does this chart assume that these countries will not grow at all?
中国的增长率假设是什么?英国呢? 还是这张图表假设这些国家根本不会增长?
NoMaximum7
These are nominal gdp numbers. India is anyway growing at 10% in nominal terms for many years by now
这些都是名义GDP数据。不管怎么说,印度的名义增长率已经达到了10%,而且已经持续了很多年。
bikbar
The number one question is "why?"
India would like to be as powerful as China because of Chinese threat. Also, the leaders would love to be respected more in the global stage.
By whom?
Here lies the problem. Who will drive India to a better future at high speed? It's a democracy and so it is difficult for any political leader to think for long term. They would also have to make their small support groups happy immediately by even sacrificing greater good. China didn't have that problem. It's an authoritarian regime that knows it would be fucked if people becomes unhappy.
第一个问题是“为什么?”
因为中国的要挟,印度希翼和中国一样强大,此外,各国领导人也希翼在全球舞台上遭到更多的尊敬。
通过谁来实现?
这就是问题所在。谁将推动印度高速走向更美妙的未来?这是一个敏煮国家,因而任何政治领导人都很难从长远的角度考虑问题,他们必需通过牺牲更大的利益来满足他们的小型支持团体,中国没有这个问题,这是一个读才的政权,它知道如果人们变得不中意,它就会完蛋。
src916
It would take forever!!!... We Indians never take hardwork and accountability seriously and specially Govt Employees let things happen till it gets worse or things get out of control.
Just take this for eg: Playing music loudly on any public transport is not allowed but in mumbai's local trains you'll see group of people singing bhajans... till now now one's having objection but things can go worse and even some polical parties can use it to get political milege of it.
这要花很长时间!我们印度人素来不认真对待和努力工作,也没有责任感,特殊是政府雇员,直到事情变得更糟或失去操纵。
这么说吧:在任何公共交通工具上大声播放音乐都是不同意的,但是在孟买当地的火车上,你会看到一群人在唱bhajans…直到现在有人反对,但是事情可能会变得更糟,甚至一些政治党派也可以利用它来获得政治上的好处。
werrt1234
Lol ok. China isn't trapped in a housing bubble that is just made worse with shadow banking right?
哈哈,好吧。中国没有被困在房地产泡沫中,而影子银行让情况变得更糟,对吧?
[deleted]
Lol ok. China isn't trapped in a housing bubble that is just made worse with shadow banking right?
The Chinese own 100% of the debt/bubble to themselves(similar to the rest of East Asia like Japan/Korea/Hong Kong/Taiwan and they have housing bubbles bursting all the time in 90s/2000s and they still ended up ok) and they don't have a open media like Japan(Ok, that point might be debatable due to the choke-hold of LDP on Japanese politics but it's still freer than China).
Even if the Bubble really did burst in China's case, it will be covered under wraps by China's media and their government. Same with Shadow Banking.
Given their vested interest to ensure the continued dominance of the West, you can't believe everything you hear from those White/Jewish media personalities or Glib-tongued NRI analysts in the usual mainstream Western news and information outlets with regards to China.
“哈哈,好吧。中国没有被困在房地产泡沫中,而影子银行让情况变得更糟,对吧?”
——中国人的债务/泡沫100%都归自己所拥有,不是外国( 相似于东亚其他国家,比如日本/韩国/香港/台湾,90年代/21世纪初,他们的房地产泡沫不断在破裂,但他们最终还是坦然无恙),而且他们没有像日本这样的开放媒体( 好吧,这一点可能是值得商榷的,因为自民党对日本政治的压制,但它仍比中国自在 )。
即便中国的泡沫真的破裂,它也会被中国的媒体和政府所掩盖,影子银行也一样。
鉴于他们(西方)确保西方继续占领主导地位的既得利益,你不能相信那些白人/犹太媒体人或那些口若悬河的分析师在有关中国的西方主流新闻和信息媒体上所听到的一切。
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发表于 2018-9-25 06:23:15 |显示全部楼层
东方不败还是灭绝师太啊?2018-09-25
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发表于 2018-10-2 21:02:19 |显示全部楼层
very good
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发表于 2018-10-8 20:22:35 |显示全部楼层
楼主又闹绯闻了!
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